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March 10th, 2010

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Stein Holden

 
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Re:Payment for environmental services - 2009/05/15 18:05 GMT I am sorry if I misunderstood you. I have very high respect for Gandhi and his many achievements. But he may not have been expert in economics or been able to forecast the developments in economics after his death. I am also an adirer of Nobel Price winner in economics, Amartya Sen, who has focused a lot on equity issues and the economics of destitution, e.g. with his books on Poverty and Famines, with the entitlement approach, and Equality of What. The economics of being poor is also my field of economics. Economics fundamenally about management of resources when you face constraints. So it is a big misconception to think that economics is only about getting rich.
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Re:Payment for environmental services - 2009/05/17 16:41 GMT Respected Prof Stein Holden,

Thank you very much for the kind and thought-provoking reply to my last message.

I have no mis conception, You are perfectly right that "economics is not only about getting rich"; but Gandhiji's observation was that among the different goals of economics, this goal of "becoming rich" is making problems to the world and economists are not at all working seriously on the issue. Gandhiji wanted to direct economists to emphasize some other goals seriously.

Prof Amarthya Sen's contributions on equity issues and the economics of destitution are great but not exactly in the Gandhian way.

Gandhiji was of course not an "expert in economics". But he was a social scientist of high wisdom and extra ordinary farsightedness so that he could "forecast the developments in economics" that affect people even today.

Gandhian thoughts on 'economics' are not yet thoroughly explored by economists or ecologists; it is a treasure of 'ecofriendly' management of natural and financial resources for global sustainable development and sustainable happiness of all - is not 'utopian'. Gandhiji was a 'sociologist' a 'political economist' and a sage!

I am sure that you are well aware than me that "science is not the truth, but an infinite search of the truth" and in its pursuit, scientists have to 'review' the process every time.

I hope a proper review of 'Gandhian thoughts' has high relevance in developing better economic concepts than the currently available concepts on social development.

Gandhiji was a 'wholist' and his holistic approaches to social development, emphasizing the spiritual and moral reasons also as significant to sustainable development of nations are yet to be properly explored.

I am a student of biology (ecology) and what wonders me is that even in those primitive days his wisdom enabled him to predict and forcast social issues that challenge humanity in the midst of 'eco-catastrophe' of today; Gandhiji visualized lack of character among leaders, lack of will power of the the political leadership and the poor self-discipline to sacrifice selfishness among people, as the root cause of all social economic crises (including terrorism!). It was his interference that saved a big country of utterly poor people from terrorist turns and paved them a new way of non-violence to a truly democratic process of growth. Of course, India is not following Gandhian views completely, but the directions are still there in the country's grass root processes and that is why it is not like others in the same region. Economists have to analyzed the facts differently.

As a student of ecology, I think that all ecological issues originates ultimately from social failures (irresponsibility or ignorance of people and their leaders - ignoring certain sacrifices to achieve sustainable goals).

I hope your interest in the "economics of being poor" shall definitely take you more deeper into to Gandhian thoughts.

Thanking you and expecting more of your criticisms,

With respect and esteemed regards,

Dr Ray

Post edited by: methikalamray, at: 2009/05/17 17:50 GMT

Post edited by: methikalamray, at: 2009/05/17 18:04 GMT
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Re:Payment for environmental services - 2009/05/17 16:41 GMT

Post edited by: methikalamray, at: 2009/05/18 07:36 GMT
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Stein Holden

 
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Re:Payment for environmental services - 2009/05/17 18:20 GMT Dear Joseph
I am sure Gandhi had many great ideas and I must admit that my knowledge of them is limited. From this last reply I think I see that his thoughts were related to one or several branches in economics that deal with these issues and have a set of concepts, theories and models that analyze these problems. These range from public choice theory to variants of political economy and new development economics. Concepts like moral hazard, adverse selecton, rent-seeking, corruption, bribery, nepotism, elite capture, resource curse, collective action failures, and other institutional failures, and use of game theory as an important tool for analyzing such problem issues is a broad and rapidly expanding field or rather fields in economics. Such issues are clearly also highly relevant to keep in mind when trying to design PES schemes to internalize environmental externalities and may very well be the major reason why they may fail. But I am not yet seeing what Gandhi added to this that is not captured in these theories. Perhaps he just talked about the same phenomena but used different words?
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Re:Payment for environmental services - 2009/05/18 06:27 GMT

Post edited by: methikalamray, at: 2009/05/18 07:36 GMT
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Re:Payment for environmental services - 2009/05/18 06:27 GMT Dear Prof Stein Holden,

Thank you very much for the kind reply.

I am sure that you as a good scholar in economics can very well Guide researchers to work out "what Gandhi added to or that is not captured in the new economic theories" such as "moral hazard, adverse selecton, rent-seeking, corruption, bribery, nepotism, elite capture, resource curse, collective action failures, and other institutional failures".

I feel that Gandhiji had addressed all these issues in his theories and probably economic scholars who were pioneers in these theories might have either influenced Gandhiji (Gandhiji was a voraceous reader -in his works one can see quotes from world classics as well as all the great authors of his period)or Gandhiji might have influenced economists in developing such theories.

Gandhiji wanted to avoid the misconception of the term civilization:

He said "Civilization seeks to increase bodily comforts, but it fails miserably in doing so" and redefined civilization:

"Civilization is that mode of conduct which points out to man the path of duty. Performance of duty and observance of morality are convertible terms. To observe morality is to attain mastery over our mind and our passions. So doing, we know ourselves". If follow Gandhian thoughts, to become civilized we need to limit our worldly desires - limit our needs and to be spiritual in dealing with worldly affairs. Ecological findings also direct humans to follow the same pursuit in managing the earth beautifully and sustainably.

Albert Einstein wrote on Gandhiji:

"The moral influence which he has exercised upon thinking people through the civilized world may be far more durable than would appear likely in our present age, with its exaggeration of brute force...... We are fortunate and should be grateful that fate has bestowed upon us so luminous a contemporary - a beacon to the generations to come".

Romain Rolland wrote:

"Gandhi is not only for India a hero of national history, whose legendary memory will be enshrined in the millenial epoch .. He has renewed, for all the peoples of the West, the message of Christ, forgotten or betrayed. He has inscribed his name among the sages and saints of humanity; and the radiance of his figure has penetrated into all the regions of the earth"

I find, the moral questions that Gandhiji highlighted in civilized human life and the political theories which he invented for the true development of a modern nation have high applications in environmental problem solving, including 'Payment of Environmental Services'.

If I were a student of economics I would have requested you to guide me to work on these issues; I am now in my age of forty six and very busy with academic schedules; but still is interested in such interdisciplinary thoughts and investigations, though not sure how much I am capable of doing in the line.

You as a good economist interested in environment friendly resource management, may kindly direct students on the theme. I am only happy to assist you in in the matter; may be in identifying qualified youth to pursue such researches and to monitor their studies here under your guidance.

Thanking you,

With respect and esteemed regards,

Ray

Post edited by: methikalamray, at: 2009/05/18 07:45 GMT
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